Michelle ([info]chelleg1977) wrote in [info]gymrats,
2007-06-27 08:50:00
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Bruises during weight loss

So, my husband came home with the diet plan that comes with the Bowflex Extreme last night. One of his co-workers brought it into work and his boss made everyone a copy. I've read the diet plan before (we have a Bowflex as well, if I had known Darron was going to buy one, I would have sold him ours) and I think Dr. Ellington Darden is crazy, but there was one nugget of information that I found interesting.

One of the FAQs was a woman writing in about how she bruises when she lowers her calorie-level. His explanation was that the organ (kidney? liver?) that breaks down excess estrogen in the blood is the same organ that breaks down fat and that when you are in fat loss mode it works on the fat and leaves the estrogen at high(er) levels. High(er) levels of estrogen in the blood cause the cell walls to be weaker and more prone to breaking.

Is there any truth in this or is Dr. Ellington Darden just a full-on nutjob?

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  • 17 comments

[info]beggargirl

June 27 2007, 14:46:53 UTC 4 years ago

One of the FAQs was a woman writing in about how she bruises when she lowers her calorie-level.

It seems high estrogen can lead to bruising, but on a restricted calorie diet, you could be depriving yourself from any number of clotting agents as well.



Bruising: Low Vitamin K, low Vit C, low hesperidin, low rutin (bioflavonoids), high/low iron, high/low
manganese, high/low copper, high phosphorus, high silicon / silica, high germanium, low calcium, low potassium, high Vit E, [high estrogen, viral / bacterial infection], [high alcohol, high ginkgo intake].

From http://www.acu-cell.com/dis.html

[info]silaren

June 27 2007, 18:08:06 UTC 4 years ago

Vitamin K is fat-soluble (and not water-soluble) so it's an obvious candidate for "low intake" on a low-fat diet. Vitamin C is water-soluble so if you're eating your veggies you should be getting enough.

(Vitamin E is another fat-soluble one, so "high vitamin E" is less likely here.)

[info]lovesasa

June 28 2007, 13:53:16 UTC 4 years ago

Sounds like she needs to take a multivitamin.

[info]mondragon

June 27 2007, 15:13:38 UTC 4 years ago

(I'm not a doctor but I am able to read actual medical texts, so anything I say here is in that context.)

Some people have sensible knowledge about the practice of diet and exercise that is useful and correct but then they decide that that means they know the underlying science - which is fascinatingly complex - they invariably spew bullshit.

Even if it was as simple as fat from fat cells being transported to the liver to be broken down (which it's not), think about the volume of fat in a big plate of bacon and eggs vs the amount of body fat that you can lose in a week. If the liver was so overwhelmed by the body fat.... most people would be constantly bleeding from their pores.

From my reading, it's _low_ levels of estrogen that increase the chances of bruising after menopause, so I'd question the association with weak cell walls.

Her bruising is more likely caused by a bad diet that is missing vital vitamins (Vitamin C deficiency could be one cause) or an indication of borderline bleeding disorder.

[info]chelleg1977

June 27 2007, 15:16:48 UTC 4 years ago

He did recommend that she supplement with Vitamin C.

[info]thatgirljj

June 27 2007, 15:38:55 UTC 4 years ago

That just seems odd because there are plenty of sources of vitamin C that fit into a reasonably healthy weight loss/cutting diet. If you have a good diet you shouldn't need a C supplement to prevent bruising. Just indicates to me that the underlying diet is probably crap.

[info]chelleg1977

June 27 2007, 15:44:35 UTC 4 years ago

Oh, my personal opinion is that the underlying diet is absolutley crap and I just laughed when my husband handed it to me and told him that the dude was nuts. He wants MEN to start out at 1500 calories/day and then work their way down to 1300 calories/day. Women do 1200 calories/day the first two weeks of the six week plan and do 1000 calories/day the last two weeks of the plan. He does not mention varying the calorie levels with activity level or current weight. And he recommends a 60/20/20 split on macronutrients. Oh, and don't forget to drink 6.5 32 oz bottles of ice cold water a day. And it has to be ice cold so that your body burns 123 calories warming the water up to body temperature before it uses it.

[info]ibsulon

June 27 2007, 18:01:21 UTC 4 years ago

Of course, take the average American man.

If you tell him 1500, he'll think he's eating 1500 but hit 2000.

[info]chelleg1977

June 27 2007, 18:04:09 UTC 4 years ago

Well, there is that, but still.

[info]kimuchi

June 27 2007, 17:10:58 UTC 4 years ago

I bruise easily when losing weight even on a varied, completely unrestricted diet. My unscientific survey of people who volunteer that their girlfriend/wife/ex is the same way suggests it's not uncommon at all.

[info]chelleg1977

June 27 2007, 18:04:57 UTC 4 years ago

I believe that. The reason that I found that particular Q&A so interesting is that I was having some bruising a couple of weeks ago that correlated nicely with my new workout program and I wondered what was causing it.

[info]caliginous

June 28 2007, 03:47:25 UTC 4 years ago

tiny muscular tears as you use muscle in new ways or weights paired with increased circulation is my off-the top logical explanation. especially when paired with the above vitamin list.

[info]silaren

June 27 2007, 18:21:07 UTC 4 years ago

I don't think that's right, but there might be something to it that was oversimplified and garbled in translation.

Hormone levels in general get a little wonky on diets.

Testosterone and estrogen (and all the other interesting hormones like that) are synthesized in the body from the same basic stuff: cholesterol. Cholesterol levels tend to drop when you're dieting, hence, so do hormone levels.

Meanwhile, cholesterol is also involved in blood coagulation</a>, particularly the "intrinsic cascade". This is only indirectly related to "external insult" style bruises (what you get from banging your leg or arm into a barbell or whatever), but is related due to the feedback loops involved in blood clotting (see The Clotting Cascade on the same page).

This is all way outside my area (I have been studying some biochemistry, but not clotting) but it does show that a single root cause—in this case, reduced calorie intake—has a bunch of different results (lowered hormone levels, and somewhat decreased clotting activity).

[info]chelleg1977

June 27 2007, 18:40:46 UTC 4 years ago

I don't think that's right, but there might be something to it that was oversimplified and garbled in translation

There is always that possiblility.

I could type in exactly what he said tomorrow. I'm going from memory today. Really, it isn't all that important, was just curious because I did have some brusing in the beginning. Figured I needed to make sure I was taking a multi to cover all the bases.

[info]silaren

June 27 2007, 18:44:17 UTC 4 years ago

Actually I was thinking more of the translation that happens when the magazine takes what the writer wrote and re-words it to make it fit the desired number of column inches. :-)

[info]mondragon

June 28 2007, 12:43:36 UTC 4 years ago

Can you really say it's a single root cause? There's a reduction in calories but also very probably a change in the foods that are eaten, when they're eaten, in the amount of exercise and activity, possibly a higher intake of aspirin-type products for soreness, etc.

It just seems like too many factors to put forward one theory over another. I'd say that if I was on a diet that caused me to bruise in any significant way I'd go off of it and look for something less unhealthy.


[info]silaren

June 28 2007, 19:41:53 UTC 4 years ago

Can you really say it's a single root cause?

For the specific case I was discussing above, yes; in general, no. :-) All I meant was: X (lowered calorie intake) causes Y (lowered cholesterol levels) which causes both Z1 and Z2. So all of Y, Z1, and Z2 are "caused" by X in this case. (However, the change in X—delta-X—may only explain part of delta-Y, delta-Z1, etc.)
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